[Jegs81]

Hello all. I am having issues with my 2008 RT charger, 5.7. The motor is stock, and is throwing codes p1411 and p1416. I changed the plugs, mds solenoids, checked pushrods and did a visual inspection of the springs for cylinder 6. I reset the codes and nothing. The car runs very rough, unless in fuel saver mode. Anyone have any suggestions or need more info? I'd appreciate any help. Thank you much.

 

[Jegs81]

So I disconnected the negative battery cable for about 15 seconds, I saw it worked for someone else on the forum. Now the car will not start. It chokes as if it had a large cam and bad timing. Suggestions?

 

[djalbin]

P1411 – CYLINDER 1 REACTIVATION CONTROL
When all criteria has been met, power is supplied to each MDS Solenoid when the engine is making a transition from 8 cylinder mode to 4 cylinder mode. By actuating the solenoid, oil pressure is raised to the pair of lifters that coincide with each particular solenoid. The oil pressure pushes in the locking pins that allows the lifter to collapse, decoupling the valves and camshaft.
When Monitored:
Transition from 8 to 4 cylinder mode.
Set Condition:
The MDS fails to activate and take place for cylinder 1.

P1416 – CYLINDER 6 REACTIVATION CONTROL
Same as P1411 except it's cylinder 6 instead of cylinder 1.

So cylinders 1 & 6 are failing to transition from 8 to 4 cylinder mode. It could be a wiring/connector issue with these two cylinders. The two MDS solenoids could be bad. There could be insufficient oil pressure on the lifter locking pins. Could be these two lifters are bad. It could be the PCM (powertrain control module).

You need to remove the intake manifold to gain access to the MDS solenoids. The wiring/connector could be the MDS solenoid control circuit is open or shorted to ground. There could be a ground circuit that is open.
.

 

[Jegs81]

@djalbin, I replied to you in the chargerforums.com post, thank you much. In case you see this one first, how do you remove the harness to the MDS solenoids so I can do a check with an ohm meter? I cant see the connector behind the block and do not know how it is designed. Does it have a locking clip that slides back or to the side then press to release type of thing? Thank you again, I appreciate your help.

 

[Jegs81]

Oh, and I did change solenoids 1 and 6 to no avail. I put back the original solenoids just to see if I put in bad solenoids, stuff does happen, and the car is doing the same thing. If I give it gas on start up she will start but dies as soon as I get off the gas. EGR is in place, hose that goes behind the intake is in, hose to the air box is in place...im at a loss.
Also, how can I check the fuel pressure on this thing? Is there a shrader valve somewhere? The pump is humming as she should be, I just do not know what the pressure is looking like. Thank you all again.

 

[djalbin]

You will need to connect a fuel pressure gauge to where the fuel line connects to the fuel rail. Normal fuel pressure is 58 psi ± 5 psi.

Follow the fuel pressure release procedure before disconnecting the fuel line connections.

STANDARD PROCEDURE - FUEL SYSTEM PRESSURE RELEASE PROCEDURE
1. Remove Fuel Pump relay from Power Distribution Center (PDC). For location of relay, refer to label on underside of PDC cover. (fuse box in the trunk)
2. Start and run engine until it stalls.
3. Attempt restarting engine until it will no longer run.
4. Turn ignition key to OFF position.
5. Return fuel pump relay to PDC.
6. One or more Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC’s) may have been stored in PCM memory due to fuel pump relay removal. The scan tool must be used to erase a DTC.
.

 

[Jegs81]

@djalbin, you are a lifesaver. So that is a push and lock style of gauge connection, correct? I'll play with it when I get back home tonight or tomorrow. Thank you much for the info, I appreciate it. And thank you for the links, I appreciate those also.

 

[HemiLonestar]

If by chance you can't do it the proper way, there is minimal gas release when you pop it loose. I had to pull an intake manifold on a non-running engine that didn't have the fuel system bled down.

 

[Jegs81]

If by chance you can't do it the proper way, there is minimal gas release when you pop it loose. I had to pull an intake manifold on a non-running engine that didn't have the fuel system bled down.

Thank you HemiLonestar, i'll give it a shot possibly today. I just removed the plugs just to air the cylinders out, it smells of gas. I pulled and checked all the fuses just to see and am going over a service manual that I got a link to from @djalbin. Hopefully I get this thing started or she has to get towed to the stealership for repairs. They do such a crappy job around here I hate taking it to them.
I'll keep you posted, thank you again.

 

[djalbin]

Excessive fuel in the cylinders can be a variety of things ...
Spark plugs are fouling and not burning all the fuel. This can be due to improper electrode gap or plugs are not firing at the correct time (e.g. improper spark advance).
Fuel injectors are putting too much fuel into the cylinders. This can be due to rich AFR (air-fuel ratio or fuel trim) or injectors are leaking.
.

 

[Jegs81]

So pulled the plugs and cleaned them out. My fuel line disconnect tool is too bulky to work with the fuel rail and I do not have the proper fuel pressure gauge to check pressure. Either way I tried to start her again and it was a no go. She smells like gas horribly and gave me a p0300 code, multiple misfire. I put the new MDS solenoids back in, ohmed the harness and got 2 different readings from the 4 connectors. .8 Mohms from the positive bank and .3 Mohms from the negative bank. That struck me funny but I do not know what they are supposed to be and I did not see values in the chiltons website that you sent me djalbin. I'll play some more tomorrow if the weather holds up, if not, off to the stealership, cant play forever.

 

[djalbin]

Pin-1 is the control circuit. With the ignition Off, the resistance between ground and PIN-1 should not be below 100 ohms.

Pin-2 is the ground circuit. With the ignition Off, a 12-volt test light connected to 12-volts (B+) should light when touching Pin-2.
.

 

[Jegs81]

@djalbin thank you much for that pic. I finally got in to the car again yesterday night and did the check on the MDS harness. It all seems to check out just fine. So, I pushed the paperweight on to the street and am calling a tow truck to take her to the dealer later today. I cant keep playing with it anymore. Thank you much for all the help, when I get it back from the dealer I will let you know what the deal with it was. I know im curious as anything to find out what is wrong with it.

 

[djalbin]

Dealer hands-on diagnostics are usually better than remote over the internet diagnosis
.

 

[Jegs81]

Dealer hands-on diagnostics are usually better than remote over the internet diagnosis
.

Definitely. I just hate not knowing what is wrong. I feel so defeated. Oh well, stuff happens, lets see how it works out. Thank you again, I appreciate all the help.

 

[Jegs81]

So the dealership didnt know what the mds solenoid was when they called me on Friday. They did a compression check and there is not pressure in cyl 6, which is what would explain code 1416, not so much 1411. Seems as if the valve is stuck open. So they want to replace the engine, I think im going to get the car back, they did not seem to know to check for a stuck valve versus a blown ring.
Next question and probably next thread: Anyone know of any machine shops in South Jersey or even Philly area to take the heads to for a rebuild?

 

[Frankileecaruso]

P1411 – CYLINDER 1 REACTIVATION CONTROL
When all criteria has been met, power is supplied to each MDS Solenoid when the engine is making a transition from 8 cylinder mode to 4 cylinder mode. By actuating the solenoid, oil pressure is raised to the pair of lifters that coincide with each particular solenoid. The oil pressure pushes in the locking pins that allows the lifter to collapse, decoupling the valves and camshaft.
When Monitored:
Transition from 8 to 4 cylinder mode.
Set Condition:
The MDS fails to activate and take place for cylinder 1.

P1416 – CYLINDER 6 REACTIVATION CONTROL
Same as P1411 except it's cylinder 6 instead of cylinder 1.

So cylinders 1 & 6 are failing to transition from 8 to 4 cylinder mode. It could be a wiring/connector issue with these two cylinders. The two MDS solenoids could be bad. There could be insufficient oil pressure on the lifter locking pins. Could be these two lifters are bad. It could be the PCM (powertrain control module).

You need to remove the intake manifold to gain access to the MDS solenoids. The wiring/connector could be the MDS solenoid control circuit is open or shorted to ground. There could be a ground circuit that is open.
.

I have a 2006 Dodge Charger RT I recently just got a code for a misfire around 6 and a code 1416 I think I just put a brand new head in cuz I had a bent valve and now the car still has a misfire the mechanic said the pushrods are fine I am thinking it is the MDS solenoid would this cause a misfire and when I under heavy load the car will hesitate to shift gears and force it will Putter and if I let off the gas then it will start to shift gears again it's like my I just put a brand new head in cuz I had a bent valve and I had a bad oil pressure sensor I kind of drove around for a little while with like that but now there's a brand new head and still a misfire coil packs are brand new and the fuel injectors are fine I just don't know what the hell it could be

 

[djalbin]

P1416–CYLINDER 6 REACTIVATION CONTROL PERFORMANCE
When all criteria has been met, power is supplied to each MDS Solenoid as the engine is making a transition from 8 cylinder mode to 4 cylinder mode. By actuating the solenoid, oil pressure is raised to the pair of lifters that coincide with each particular solenoid. The oil pressure pushes in the locking pins that allows the lifter to collapse, decoupling the valves and camshaft.
P1416 is getting set because MDS failed to disengage for cylinder 6.
Problem could be the wiring harness/connector to MDS solenoid #6, the solenoid itself, or the cylinder #6 MDS lifters. The MDS solenoids are under the air intake manifold.
.