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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2012 5.7 Dodge Charger pursuit model with 109603 miles. I’ve owned the vehicle for approximately 4 months. Regular maintenance was maintained before I had it; regular oil changes have been maintained with Penzoil FS 5w20.

I have seen many videos of people reporting lifter roller bearing failures leading to grinding down cam lobes which causes inevitable HEMI “ticking” and or knocking.

Of which I’ve read the MDS system has a direct correlation.

I am very concerned this problem may be looming in my future. I’ve also read replacing the lifters with “Hellcat” lifters removes the potential for this issue. (900.00 for 8, yikes!)


I’ve also read, you can DISABLE the MDS system with a “Diablo Tuner.” Will this PREVENT the roller bearings from locking up? Will this prevent the catastrophic failure leading to cam wear down and ultimate knocking?

If no, how can this be prevented?
 

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It is not directly related or isolated to MDS lifters. There are as many non MDS that fail. We do read #5 fails allot.
Use BlackStone Labs for oil analysis every change to monitor your iron content. If it starts trending up you can prepare for the repair.
I have a 135k with a supercharger and the praying and beatings continue. MDS is Disabled.
I practice no hard starts and letting it idle until it settles, then no gunning until my coolant temp is 180, and my oil temp is 150. And cross my fingers.
The light at the end the tunnel is there are more that do not fail than do failI've seen a few 11-14 R/T's with over 200k miles, bone stock, MDS enabled. And upon speaking to them they had no idea the threat is out there.
 

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Simple facts:

MDS has not been proven to deal with lifter failures.

Idling has not been proven to be cause of lifter failures.

Hemi engine design has not been proven to be cause of failures.

Magical Oil will not save your lifters.

Hellcat Lifters are the same as any non MDS lifter. There are part revisements through the linage but the newer "hellcat" lifters can fit almost every Hemi back to almost 2006 wanna say the website said. Which sucks cause I bought those "hellcat" lifters believing it while ago.

Here is a great read on that.


If your looking on MMX I would almost wager to get the Comp Cam lifters which are $400 bucks if your wanting to delete MDS. IF your wanting to do it cheaply a Challenger non MDS cam is like $80 on rockauto.


You can not Properly run non MDS lifters on a MDS cam. I was told long time ago you could and I got kinda screwed. I ended up doing two cams and two lifters sets back to back because of bad information.




Also, welcome fellow Pursuit owner!

122021
 

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I had a bad #5 cylinder lifter at 139,000 miles on an extremely well maintained (in my opinion) 2013. The needle bearing failed. It was not MDS related. Luckily it did not freeze up and wipe the cam but I did not waste any time and got it in for repairs once I was sure it was internal.
 

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Can we get a little run down on the first signs or symptoms and your following steps?
I'm also interested in your vehicle build date. As you know I have a 2013.

Thanks
 

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Mine was a March 2013 build. There were absolutely no symptoms that I could feel. I first noticed it when I remote started the car and it cut off after a few seconds. When I got in and started it, the engine light was on. Once I cleared the code, the engine light only came on when I tried to remote start it. My friend is a senior tech at the Dodge dealer and let me use his scanner. I switched #3&5 plugs, coil packs and injectors but each time got a misfire detected in #5. Just before I decided to take it in, the engine light came on with normal startup. I did notice a slight and I mean very slight intermittent blip from the left exhaust pipe but the car ran like a top. When the lifter was removed, the wheel was loose but still turned freely. I had been trying to sell the car and was lucky to have a BGProducts warranty on it that covered the $2,300 bill! The rest of the story is the dealer liked my car and I sold it to them the day I went in to pick it up. If I was asked to make a recommendation assuming you want to keep your car, I would say with your mileage I would replace all the lifters. I don’t believe MDS is a problem but you might consider deleting it. Supposedly you can do that without a tune.
 

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Thanks, I'm thinking about it. I am researching for what lifters to get.
Much rather do that than include a cam. I'm @135k miles now. I would be doing the work and have HPTuners.
 

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Discussion Starter #8

This post references listings for “Hell cat lifters” and 2005 5.7 lifters and on up being the SAME. In other words, all lifters post 2004 are the updated “hellcat” lifters.

I searched 2005 5.7 lifters, and they can be purchased for 55.00 a piece. Half the price listed on MXX for their specific “Hellcat” lifters at approx 108.00 a piece.
 

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Thanks, FYI I started a new thread for this.
 

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The original issue with the MDS lifters was not really the lifter itself, but an issue in getting oil into the lifters. Without proper lubrication they would begin to wear on the the cams shaft. The wearing would obviously shave off some of the metal from the camshaft. The MDS uses magnets to engage and disengage, so it would attract the metal shavings in the engine and cause the lifter to stick. That's when the damage really sets in. FCA has since then updated the lifters so it is no longer as big of an issue as it once was.

@Jsmith I would say the reason you see such a cost difference when searching up the "Hellcat lifters" would be aftermarket vs OEM. You may save going with a cheaper lifter, but if you purchase Mopar OEM you get a 2 year warranty on the part. You can find them on our website by clicking the link here.
 

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@135k original miles I have mine pulled down now for new lifters, springs, pushrods and seals in hopes of getting ahead of the possibility.
The new lifters are half MDS, half non (aka Hellcat).
My cam and lifters are pristine. The only negative I see if at all is the lifter cradles do not grip the lifters but are not sloppy. I pull the cradles and the lifters stay in the bores but are not stuck or binding, I can pick them out easily.
I'll be comparing pushrod lengths and spring heights just for what ever.
Just maybe I'll have dodged a bullet.
 

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Has to be one of the worst ideas I have heard right next to magical oil preventing it.


The original issue with the MDS lifters was not really the lifter itself, but an issue in getting oil into the lifters. Without proper lubrication they would begin to wear on the the cams shaft. The wearing would obviously shave off some of the metal from the camshaft. The MDS uses magnets to engage and disengage, so it would attract the metal shavings in the engine and cause the lifter to stick. That's when the damage really sets in. FCA has since then updated the lifters so it is no longer as big of an issue as it once was.



@Jsmith I would say the reason you see such a cost difference when searching up the "Hellcat lifters" would be aftermarket vs OEM. You may save going with a cheaper lifter, but if you purchase Mopar OEM you get a 2 year warranty on the part. You can find them on our website by clicking the link here.


MDS uses solenoids that use coiled wire to create a magnetic field to extended or retract a plunger assembly that controls high pressure oil flow. Alone they do not have any magnetic field to "attract shavings" to hold them to then release into the wild blue yonder (engine). The solenoids also have fine mesh screens for any oil that flows in, and flows back out. Even after a massive cam lobe failure on my car I found ZERO metal shavings in the mesh or on the solenoids including the VCT solenoid as well. The lifters themselves are purely mechanical and use High pressure oil controlled by the solenoids to dis engage a locking pin that allows the lifter to full collapse and not stay pumped up.

Also, The cam shaft lobe is not what wears first. The lifter roller- roller bearings eat into the pin they ride on, causing the roller to jam up and become stuck which then starts to cause the wear on the cam lobe. Lobe wear is merely a side effect of what is happening. Not the initial failure.
 

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@CE9311 I'm going off of the testing that Dodge had a company called Kuo do to diagnose the issue. I could be reading it wrong. If you could send me your email, I'd be glad to send you the information.
 

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@135k original miles I have mine pulled down now for new lifters, springs, pushrods and seals in hopes of getting ahead of the possibility.
The new lifters are half MDS, half non (aka Hellcat).
My cam and lifters are pristine. The only negative I see if at all is the lifter cradles do not grip the lifters but are not sloppy. I pull the cradles and the lifters stay in the bores but are not stuck or binding, I can pick them out easily.
I'll be comparing pushrod lengths and spring heights just for what ever.
Just maybe I'll have dodged a bullet.
Looks like new lifters will make it good for another 135,000 miles! (y)
 

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I'm hoping thanks. I mean dang it, I feel like I'm playing Russian roulette otherwise.
 

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Copy, I will pull the other head tonight and if it's all good as the other I'm keeping the MDS cam.
 
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