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Discussion Starter #1
So I was wondering, if I have my rear O2's turned off. is there anything comming from them at all. if I unplugged them would it even matter one bit at all?

Which brings me to my question, if we disable our rear O2's could we unlug the rear sensor. get rid of it and put in a wide band O2 in that spot?

Then we wouldn't have to put a new bung in correct? Would this work out in doing so?



Now trinity question? if i plug in an wideband O2 to the trinity and datalog with it will I also be able to log the wideband readings?

Seems a whole lot cheaper than buying a wideband set up with a data logger from that wideband sensor company? if all I needed was the sensor and wiring to hook up to trinity? anyone got anything on this one?
 

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I believe you're going to need a wideband with a datalogger. The Trinity will hook into the analog output of the datalogger. I have mine hooked up this way with my Aeroforce gauges. I'm pretty sure the Trinity works the same way. I would double check with Diablo just to make sure.
 

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he could just use the LC-1 and gauge/log with the trinity.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So if I buy a wideband O2, hook this up, it will link with trinity? and I'll be able to log on just one thing?

On the discription it says i can hook this up to my existing sensor? does that mean it will turn it into a widband?

Ohh and what about the rear O2's can i take them out and leave them out? Do they even need to be hooked up at all other than to plug an exhaust leak?


LC-1 Wideband Controller


The LC-1 Lambda cable is a complete wideband controller built in to a sealed cable. It features the same award-winning patented digital measurement principal found in the LM-1 & LM-2, and includes digital input, output, and 2 user programmable analog outputs. (View Video)
The LC-1 is more accurate than conventional designs costing many times as much, and its self-calibrating circuitry can compensate for changes in temperature, altitude and sensor condition. The LC-1 is ideal for applications such as Dynos, Data Acquisition, Standalone ECUs, piggyback fuel controllers, OBD-II software or chip programmers, and gauges. With the LC-1, you can add additional wideband channels to your LM-1, convert an existing narrow-band gauge, or add wideband capabilities to your dyno. You can even tune individual cylinders by using multiple LC-1 kits.
Key Features
  • Only fully digital wideband controller.
  • Auto calibration capability to compensate for changes in temperature, altitude, and sensor condition.
  • Two user programmable analog outputs.
  • Permanent install applications
  • Cost effective individual cylinder tuning.
  • Easy to upgrade.
  • Includes LogWorks software

The LC-1's analog outputs are compatible with dynamometer software, gauges, or virtually any brand of Data Acquisition hardware, such as:
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  • EcuTek
  • Edelbrock Qwik Data
  • EFI Technology
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  • Engine Management Systems
  • Excalibur Solutions
  • Brockway Engineering
  • Fuel Air Spark Technology (FAST)
  • FXL Data
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  • Etc...
The LC-1 is also a key component of Innovate Motorsports' Modular Tuning System (MTS). Using the LC-1's serial ports you can daisy-chain other Innovate devices such as the XD-16, AuxBox (LMA-3), DL-32, TC-4, and SSI-4.
1) The basic LC-1 kit ($199) includes the LC-1, sensor, cd which includes software and manuals, bung and plug, and a serial cable to connect to the PC.
2) The Standalone Gauge Kit ($329) includes the LC-1, sensor, XD-16 digital gauge, cd which includes software and manuals, bung and plug, and a serial cable to connect to the PC.
Installation and Setup
Installation of the LC-1 is relatively simple. Complete documentation is supplied, and the support pages, user forum, videos, application notes and tuner resources can also speed you on your way to effective tuning. Innovate also has a great network of local dealers, tuners, race shops, and dyno shops that can assist you in choosing, installing, and getting the most out of your Innovate products. Click here to find a dealer near you.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Whats the difference between this O2 sensor and the one already in the car? they look the same? I mean the actual sensor itself? does this just have more wires or something?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ahhh I got it i use diablo and data log and use this to log the AFR? right. looks easy enough and a whole lot cheaper than other stuff.

Still wondering about my question above though.
 

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Yes, you can get the LC-1 and hook it up to the Trinity. If you want the trinity to monitor your a/f, that's your only choice.

You could go out and buy a complete a/f gauge setup. The gauge will only read a/f. They run around 230.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm thinking I just may get the basic set up and run my predator and their log separatly but at the same time. Then i don't have to worry about buying more stuff. Although eventually I want to upgrade to the Trinity and get the predator reprogramed for my Jeep.

Only thing I really don't get is why do they want it before the Cat? and if I install this on the header where they say to does that mean I have to put another bung in on my header or does their Wideband connect up like the factory one did plus a wire out for the guage, usb, etc.... Thats kind of what it looks like it does but I just don't really get it I guess?
 

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Just getting a basic wideband setup will save you some headache and some cash. I have the Aeroforce gauges. They monitor everything like the Trinity. However, I have to use a wideband with a datalogger with it. The datalogger stays in my console and I have to plug it in every time I want to read my a/f. Then I have to remember to unplug it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Got the answer to my question I think. The difference is the basic or narrow band O2 is, it's a two way switch used for smog purposes. it switches at the point of minimum emmisions, they are useless for tuning due to the fact they can not tell you how rich or lean your motor is. The wideband sensor has a digital control circuit to give acurate data to tell you how rich or lean you are at any load.

Whats the difference between this O2 sensor and the one already in the car? they look the same? I mean the actual sensor itself? does this just have more wires or something?

[url]http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/video/moto_0002/sniffer_content.html[/URL]
 

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Discussion Starter #11
As far as my first question, it is not suggested that you install a wideband sensor behind a catalytic converter. They want you to install it before the CAT. Kinda sucks beacause with my rear O2's disabled they pretty much serve no purpose at all other then covering up a hole to prevent leaks.

I'm just doing alot of reading on tuning, trying to get as much info as possible that way I can just learn to tune it myself after a pretty basic tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
What if I just use a standalone to monitor my AFR and just use predator to datalog and adjust.

Maybe this set up? When I want to log with this set up all I'll need is the serial cable, only 12 bucks from them. If I'm logging with predator or trinity why do I need to log AFR if I can watch it? Can I log diablo and their software at the same time.

I'm seriously thinking NO on the trinity as I like having the ability to turn off EGR and rear O2's. I think I'm just going to keep my predator.



DB-Blue Gauge / LC-1 Kit - P/N: 3795 - #3795
This kit comes complete with the patented award-winning LC-1 Wideband Controller, DB-Blue Gauge, Bosch 5-wire Wideband 02 Sensor, Bung/Plug Kit, Software CD, and quick start guide. Details
Weight3.00 lbsPrice:$209.00
Options
Quantity 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50
Add to cart





Just getting a basic wideband setup will save you some headache and some cash. I have the Aeroforce gauges. They monitor everything like the Trinity. However, I have to use a wideband with a datalogger with it. The datalogger stays in my console and I have to plug it in every time I want to read my a/f. Then I have to remember to unplug it.
 

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Got the answer to my question I think. The difference is the basic or narrow band O2 is, it's a two way switch used for smog purposes. it switches at the point of minimum emmisions, they are useless for tuning due to the fact they can not tell you how rich or lean your motor is. The wideband sensor has a digital control circuit to give acurate data to tell you how rich or lean you are at any load.




[URL="http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/video/moto_0002/sniffer_content.html"][url]http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/video/moto_0002/sniffer_content.html[/URL][/URL]
Just get the wideband welded into the spot it is supposed to go. The wideband will not get hooked up the the PCM. You'll need to keep your rear o2's plugged in even though they are turned off. It will throw a code if they are not plugged in.

The best bet is to get the LC-1 and hook it up to your Trinity. There's no way to get around welding in a new bung for the wideband.
 

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Just get the wideband welded into the spot it is supposed to go. The wideband will not get hooked up the the PCM. You'll need to keep your rear o2's plugged in even though they are turned off. It will throw a code if they are not plugged in.

The best bet is to get the LC-1 and hook it up to your Trinity. There's no way to get around welding in a new bung for the wideband.
my rear 02s are out and disabled...no codes.

the neat thing about the trinity is that you can log with it. i use a laptop to log my LC-1.

does the trinity's compact card disk thing work yet? last time i heard it wasnt supported yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So with trinity I won't need the LC=1 setup? Is this correct?
 

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So with trinity I won't need the LC=1 setup? Is this correct?
incorrect.

you need the lc-1 to measure the a/f. you'll use the trinity to log and dislplay the radings from the LC-1.

the LC-1 is the 02 sensor and the black cable thing.

the LC-1 KIT is the 02 sensor, black cable AND gauge. but this doesnt log unless hooked up to a laptop or another logging device.
 

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To add on to what has been said, I have the LC-1 linked to my Aeroforce gauges through the analog inputs. No problems, but I don't datalog, either. As far as just "unplugging" the 02 sensors...NO. Even if they are disabled, it will throw an instant code. You can erase it with the Pred, but it will instantly pop back up. I learned this the hard way. When I installed HF cats, one of my 02 sensors was stuck in the old one. When I finally got it out, I'd damaged it. I figured, "no problem, I gotta disable them, anyway." WRONG. CEL stayed on until I bought a new sensor. So I paid $50 for a sensor I don't even use. Go figure.
Hope this helps...
 

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You can remove the rear 02 from the mids wrap small amount of aluminum foil around the actual sensor part and zip tie it to to the frame/tranny lines which ever is better for you just make sure you keep them plugged into the harness, We have done this numerous times with gutted or catlees mids (i,e, JBA) to get around welding another bung for the wideband, but if you have cats there is really no reason to this as the Wideband does need to be before the cat for accurate readings

Bill
 
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that blue lc1 your showing comes with hardware so you can log from your laptop if you own one. and you can log the rest with the predator. props to speedlogix they saved me from having to by a trinity. good pep just talk with them.
 
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